New Cayenne website design

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New Cayenne website design

Andrus Adamchik
We've discussed the new website before, and Ari posted a prototype. Based on that we did some work on a more detailed design, which I'd liek to present here:

1. Home page: https://invis.io/EQDMPF5YP 
2. Internal page: https://invis.io/TSDMPF64F

It modernizes the logo. It attempts to balance Apache branding guidelines with our needs (black Apache section on top will contain all the foundation links like "Donate", etc. in a dropdown menu). It tries to deal with multiple documentation versions, etc. Quite some effort went into creation of the home page that is easy to navigate by either existing users who come there for the docs and new releases or new users who need to understand what the project is about at the first glance.

Hope you like it, and we can move to the discussion of how we program the pages :)

Andrus
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Re: New Cayenne website design

Aristedes Maniatis-2
I like it overall. I mean, it is boring, but in a good way!

* it looks like so many other material design inspired sites on the internet today
* that means it feels familiar and not scary or different
* which is good for corporates wanting to adopt something so critical to their code base
* it is easy to read and the information is accessible and clear

The one thing I feel strongly about is the reworking the logo. It feels way too much 1980's disney cartoon. If it were more wireframe:

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/red-chilli-pepper-wire-frame-picture-idBD6572-001?s=170667a
https://img1.cgtrader.com/items/3845/5598d2cc3c/pear-high-resolution-3d-model-max-obj-3ds-fbx.jpg

then I'd feel it was an attempt to say "Cayenne is the model on which you put the skin of your application". Perhaps if the lines were thin and delicate it would look less cartoon.

Other than that logo, really nice work!

Ari


On 26/9/17 4:22PM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:

> We've discussed the new website before, and Ari posted a prototype. Based on that we did some work on a more detailed design, which I'd liek to present here:
>
> 1. Home page: https://invis.io/EQDMPF5YP 
> 2. Internal page: https://invis.io/TSDMPF64F
>
> It modernizes the logo. It attempts to balance Apache branding guidelines with our needs (black Apache section on top will contain all the foundation links like "Donate", etc. in a dropdown menu). It tries to deal with multiple documentation versions, etc. Quite some effort went into creation of the home page that is easy to navigate by either existing users who come there for the docs and new releases or new users who need to understand what the project is about at the first glance.
>
> Hope you like it, and we can move to the discussion of how we program the pages :)
>
> Andrus
>


--
-------------------------->
Aristedes Maniatis
GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C  5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
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Re: New Cayenne website design

Michael Gentry
In reply to this post by Andrus Adamchik
Overall I like the look, but ...

Home Page:

Perhaps add dropdowns on the "DOWNLOAD" and "DOCS" headers to allow you to
select versions/etc directly from there?  (Allows quicker access, even
though some of that is way down in the footer.)

I think a news/blog section more prominently at the top would be helpful.
Perhaps as part of the top carousel?  Maybe make just the place where the
video is part of the carousel?  Leave the Cayenne logo where it is and you
can carousel through the video, news, etc.

The "DOWNLOAD LATEST" button, while prominent, might be better suited as a
"GET STARTED" or "QUICK START" type of page.


Documentation Page (I think that's what the second link is):

Is the search really going to work?


Both:

Responsive design?  I made my window narrow and it didn't adapt...


Thanks,

mrg

PS. I don't dislike the logo (sorry Ari!), but if you wanted a splash of
color, maybe make the stem green like in the current logo.  Is it an SVG so
it can be resized/scaled easily?  That would be valuable in a number of
places.


On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 2:22 AM, Andrus Adamchik <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> We've discussed the new website before, and Ari posted a prototype. Based
> on that we did some work on a more detailed design, which I'd liek to
> present here:
>
> 1. Home page: https://invis.io/EQDMPF5YP
> 2. Internal page: https://invis.io/TSDMPF64F
>
> It modernizes the logo. It attempts to balance Apache branding guidelines
> with our needs (black Apache section on top will contain all the foundation
> links like "Donate", etc. in a dropdown menu). It tries to deal with
> multiple documentation versions, etc. Quite some effort went into creation
> of the home page that is easy to navigate by either existing users who come
> there for the docs and new releases or new users who need to understand
> what the project is about at the first glance.
>
> Hope you like it, and we can move to the discussion of how we program the
> pages :)
>
> Andrus
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Re: New Cayenne website design

Andrus Adamchik

> On Sep 26, 2017, at 3:30 PM, Michael Gentry <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Documentation Page (I think that's what the second link is):
>
> Is the search really going to work?

I don't think there will be a real search. So ignore it.

> Both:
>
> Responsive design?  I made my window narrow and it didn't adapt...

Yes. This is just a mockup. Once we get real HTML, it will be fully responsive.

Andrus

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Re: New Cayenne website design

Amedeo Mantica
Do we need responsive design in a website suited for developers ?

> On 26 Sep 2017, at 14:40, Andrus Adamchik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>> On Sep 26, 2017, at 3:30 PM, Michael Gentry <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Documentation Page (I think that's what the second link is):
>>
>> Is the search really going to work?
>
> I don't think there will be a real search. So ignore it.
>
>> Both:
>>
>> Responsive design?  I made my window narrow and it didn't adapt...
>
> Yes. This is just a mockup. Once we get real HTML, it will be fully responsive.
>
> Andrus
>

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Re: New Cayenne website design

Andrus Adamchik
I think we do. I browse bootique.io and github on the phone all the time :)

> On Sep 26, 2017, at 4:33 PM, Amedeo Mantica <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Do we need responsive design in a website suited for developers ?
>
>> On 26 Sep 2017, at 14:40, Andrus Adamchik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 26, 2017, at 3:30 PM, Michael Gentry <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Documentation Page (I think that's what the second link is):
>>>
>>> Is the search really going to work?
>>
>> I don't think there will be a real search. So ignore it.
>>
>>> Both:
>>>
>>> Responsive design?  I made my window narrow and it didn't adapt...
>>
>> Yes. This is just a mockup. Once we get real HTML, it will be fully responsive.
>>
>> Andrus
>>
>

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Re: New Cayenne website design

John Huss
In reply to this post by Andrus Adamchik
I like it!

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 1:22 AM Andrus Adamchik <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> We've discussed the new website before, and Ari posted a prototype. Based
> on that we did some work on a more detailed design, which I'd liek to
> present here:
>
> 1. Home page: https://invis.io/EQDMPF5YP
> 2. Internal page: https://invis.io/TSDMPF64F
>
> It modernizes the logo. It attempts to balance Apache branding guidelines
> with our needs (black Apache section on top will contain all the foundation
> links like "Donate", etc. in a dropdown menu). It tries to deal with
> multiple documentation versions, etc. Quite some effort went into creation
> of the home page that is easy to navigate by either existing users who come
> there for the docs and new releases or new users who need to understand
> what the project is about at the first glance.
>
> Hope you like it, and we can move to the discussion of how we program the
> pages :)
>
> Andrus
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Re: New Cayenne website design

Andrus Adamchik
In reply to this post by Andrus Adamchik
Other than the logo debate, everybody seems to like the design, so I guess we proceed with it.

Regarding the logo, we may experiment with  alternatives. FWIW I like both the naturalistic as well as flat (cartoon) peppers. And a green stem :) I'll ask the designer to propose a few more alternatives.

> On Sep 26, 2017, at 3:30 PM, Michael Gentry <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Is it an SVG so it can be resized/scaled easily?

We can get it in any format we want. There certainly will be a vector file.

Andrus


> On Sep 26, 2017, at 9:22 AM, Andrus Adamchik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> We've discussed the new website before, and Ari posted a prototype. Based on that we did some work on a more detailed design, which I'd liek to present here:
>
> 1. Home page: https://invis.io/EQDMPF5YP 
> 2. Internal page: https://invis.io/TSDMPF64F
>
> It modernizes the logo. It attempts to balance Apache branding guidelines with our needs (black Apache section on top will contain all the foundation links like "Donate", etc. in a dropdown menu). It tries to deal with multiple documentation versions, etc. Quite some effort went into creation of the home page that is easy to navigate by either existing users who come there for the docs and new releases or new users who need to understand what the project is about at the first glance.
>
> Hope you like it, and we can move to the discussion of how we program the pages :)
>
> Andrus

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Re: New Cayenne website design

Aristedes Maniatis-2
On 30/9/17 9:40PM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
> Other than the logo debate, everybody seems to like the design, so I guess we proceed with it.

I made a bunch of more specific comments inside invision, some of which Evgeny has responded to. I think it would be worth going a few more rounds of comments and adjustments since I think there are still some structural issues like navigation, colour and accessibility which are really important. But overall it is going in the right direction!

Ari



--
-------------------------->
Aristedes Maniatis
GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C  5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
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Re: New Cayenne website design

Andrus Adamchik

> On Oct 8, 2017, at 6:29 AM, Aristedes Maniatis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 30/9/17 9:40PM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>> Other than the logo debate, everybody seems to like the design, so I guess we proceed with it.
>
> I made a bunch of more specific comments inside invision, some of which Evgeny has responded to. I think it would be worth going a few more rounds of comments and adjustments since I think there are still some structural issues like navigation, colour and accessibility which are really important. But overall it is going in the right direction!

re: comment #1 - "ORM with character"

Maybe I am not looking at it from the user perspective, but I think "ORM with character" is a good slogan. All Java ORMs out there are essentially the same. They are descendants of the J2EE and Hibernate philosophy and are constrained by the JPA spec. Cayenne came from the different background and has a different approach to modeling and using persistence. We are unrestricted in our API experimentation.

So maybe "character" is too scary to the end users and we can find a better word, but I wanted to explicitly underscore this distinctness.

Any other suggestions?

Andrus
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Re: New Cayenne website design

Aristedes Maniatis-2
On 9/10/17 4:15PM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
> Maybe I am not looking at it from the user perspective, but I think "ORM with character" is a good slogan.

"ORM with style" is similar but without the connotation in English that "character" can be somewhat undesirable.

But its a little overused. Let's keep thinking.


What are the positive characteristics we'd like to highlight?

* ease of use
* flexibility for different DAO ideas and abstractions
* escape the rigid box of JPA
* modeler


Its been too long since I've used Hibernate and friends, so I don't really know what Cayenne's unique selling point is these days. Maybe I'll start a thread on the user list and get some ideas.



Ari



--
-------------------------->
Aristedes Maniatis
GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C  5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
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Re: New Cayenne website design

Andrus Adamchik

> On Oct 9, 2017, at 10:24 AM, Aristedes Maniatis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> * ease of use
> * flexibility for different DAO ideas and abstractions
> * escape the rigid box of JPA
> * modeler

* third-party dependency free (since 4.1 there's only SLF4J dependency).

Andrus

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Re: New Cayenne website design

Robert Zeigler-6
In reply to this post by Aristedes Maniatis-2
It’s been awhile since I’ve used Java. :) But one thing Cayenne always shined at was making it simple to escape the ORM abstraction and move directly to the Db layer, but doing it in a way that was still clean. For instance, SQLTemplate queries. SQLTemplate queries saved my applications' performance on multiple occasions with large data sets and complex traversals. I suppose today I might try to use EJBQLQuery, but it’s nice to have SQLTemplate in my back pocket. I know Hibernate allows you to execute direct queries, but the lack of ideas such as DbEntity and SQLTemplate always made direct escapes to SQL via hibernate ugly.

Robert

> On Oct 9, 2017, at 2:24 AM, Aristedes Maniatis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 9/10/17 4:15PM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>> Maybe I am not looking at it from the user perspective, but I think "ORM with character" is a good slogan.
>
> "ORM with style" is similar but without the connotation in English that "character" can be somewhat undesirable.
>
> But its a little overused. Let's keep thinking.
>
>
> What are the positive characteristics we'd like to highlight?
>
> * ease of use
> * flexibility for different DAO ideas and abstractions
> * escape the rigid box of JPA
> * modeler
>
>
> Its been too long since I've used Hibernate and friends, so I don't really know what Cayenne's unique selling point is these days. Maybe I'll start a thread on the user list and get some ideas.
>
>
>
> Ari
>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------->
> Aristedes Maniatis
> GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C  5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A

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Re: New Cayenne website design

Andrus Adamchik
In reply to this post by Andrus Adamchik
Here is another version of the logo: https://invis.io/QPDY76KB9

As you see there are two flavors - a small monochrome (white) logo and a bigger 3D logo. I certainly like both better than the initial version. I wonder how well the 3D logo will look like as a Modeler desktop icon. Zhenya, the designer, is on vacation now, so we won't know for a few weeks.

Andrus
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Re: New Cayenne website design

Michael Gentry
I like them. The 3D one looks sweet.  However, if you want to put the new
logo (3D) in either the CM desktop or even the monochrome logo in
favicon.ico, it would be best to have a 2nd version that is rotated to fit
better in a square shape.  Alternatively, I suppose, just have one version
that fits in a square shape, but that might not look as good in web pages.


On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Andrus Adamchik <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Here is another version of the logo: https://invis.io/QPDY76KB9
>
> As you see there are two flavors - a small monochrome (white) logo and a
> bigger 3D logo. I certainly like both better than the initial version. I
> wonder how well the 3D logo will look like as a Modeler desktop icon.
> Zhenya, the designer, is on vacation now, so we won't know for a few weeks.
>
> Andrus
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Re: New Cayenne website design

Aristedes Maniatis-2
In reply to this post by Andrus Adamchik
On 17/10/17 4:17AM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
> Here is another version of the logo: https://invis.io/QPDY76KB9
>
> As you see there are two flavors - a small monochrome (white) logo and a bigger 3D logo. I certainly like both better than the initial version. I wonder how well the 3D logo will look like as a Modeler desktop icon. Zhenya, the designer, is on vacation now, so we won't know for a few weeks.

These are a great step forward. I think the visual illusion of the frame turning into a finished skin would be enhanced by the skin being smaller so it doesn't feel like a glove. Here's a quick hacky demonstration that needs more tidy up.

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bw5wY__nj_W9NTVkQm9rTk5Fbms?usp=sharing

It might be interesting to see the top end of the fruit being even more realistic with a slight shine, then it progresses from wireframe to flat colour to realistic. Again, I only spent 10 minutes on this, so I know it needs to be done much better, but look at logo-realistic.png in that same share.


Ari






--
-------------------------->
Aristedes Maniatis
GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C  5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
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Re: New Cayenne website design

Andrus Adamchik
Here ys a more realistic 3D logo (at the same location) :

https://projects.invisionapp.com/share/QPDY76KB9

Andrus

> On Oct 20, 2017, at 5:08 AM, Aristedes Maniatis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 17/10/17 4:17AM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>> Here is another version of the logo: https://invis.io/QPDY76KB9
>>
>> As you see there are two flavors - a small monochrome (white) logo and a bigger 3D logo. I certainly like both better than the initial version. I wonder how well the 3D logo will look like as a Modeler desktop icon. Zhenya, the designer, is on vacation now, so we won't know for a few weeks.
>
> These are a great step forward. I think the visual illusion of the frame turning into a finished skin would be enhanced by the skin being smaller so it doesn't feel like a glove. Here's a quick hacky demonstration that needs more tidy up.
>
>    https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bw5wY__nj_W9NTVkQm9rTk5Fbms?usp=sharing
>
> It might be interesting to see the top end of the fruit being even more realistic with a slight shine, then it progresses from wireframe to flat colour to realistic. Again, I only spent 10 minutes on this, so I know it needs to be done much better, but look at logo-realistic.png in that same share.
>
>
> Ari
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------->
> Aristedes Maniatis
> GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C  5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A

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Re: New Cayenne website design

Nikita Timofeev
Hi all,

Here is a GItHub repo [1] with new site demo, it already has pretty
much final design. Everyone can clone and test it locally, see README
for technical description.
What's inside: docs converted to asciidoc (not yet pushed to Cayenne
master), site build with Maven + Gulp + Hugo (but only Maven should be
installed, other parts are automated).

Everyone are welcome to try it and discuss.
Once we are happy with main features we can finalize content and push
this into apache repo.

[1] https://github.com/stariy95/cayenne-website-demo

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Andrus Adamchik <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Here ys a more realistic 3D logo (at the same location) :
>
> https://projects.invisionapp.com/share/QPDY76KB9
>
> Andrus
>
>> On Oct 20, 2017, at 5:08 AM, Aristedes Maniatis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 17/10/17 4:17AM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>>> Here is another version of the logo: https://invis.io/QPDY76KB9
>>>
>>> As you see there are two flavors - a small monochrome (white) logo and a bigger 3D logo. I certainly like both better than the initial version. I wonder how well the 3D logo will look like as a Modeler desktop icon. Zhenya, the designer, is on vacation now, so we won't know for a few weeks.
>>
>> These are a great step forward. I think the visual illusion of the frame turning into a finished skin would be enhanced by the skin being smaller so it doesn't feel like a glove. Here's a quick hacky demonstration that needs more tidy up.
>>
>>    https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bw5wY__nj_W9NTVkQm9rTk5Fbms?usp=sharing
>>
>> It might be interesting to see the top end of the fruit being even more realistic with a slight shine, then it progresses from wireframe to flat colour to realistic. Again, I only spent 10 minutes on this, so I know it needs to be done much better, but look at logo-realistic.png in that same share.
>>
>>
>> Ari
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -------------------------->
>> Aristedes Maniatis
>> GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C  5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
>



--
Best regards,
Nikita Timofeev
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Re: New Cayenne website design

Andrus Adamchik
Works great on my machine. I am planning to write the text for each one of the features on the home page.

Also anyone remembers, did we come up with a better slogan to replace "ORM with character"?

Andrus

> On Dec 21, 2017, at 10:04 AM, Nikita Timofeev <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Here is a GItHub repo [1] with new site demo, it already has pretty
> much final design. Everyone can clone and test it locally, see README
> for technical description.
> What's inside: docs converted to asciidoc (not yet pushed to Cayenne
> master), site build with Maven + Gulp + Hugo (but only Maven should be
> installed, other parts are automated).
>
> Everyone are welcome to try it and discuss.
> Once we are happy with main features we can finalize content and push
> this into apache repo.
>
> [1] https://github.com/stariy95/cayenne-website-demo
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Andrus Adamchik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Here ys a more realistic 3D logo (at the same location) :
>>
>> https://projects.invisionapp.com/share/QPDY76KB9
>>
>> Andrus
>>
>>> On Oct 20, 2017, at 5:08 AM, Aristedes Maniatis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 17/10/17 4:17AM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>>>> Here is another version of the logo: https://invis.io/QPDY76KB9
>>>>
>>>> As you see there are two flavors - a small monochrome (white) logo and a bigger 3D logo. I certainly like both better than the initial version. I wonder how well the 3D logo will look like as a Modeler desktop icon. Zhenya, the designer, is on vacation now, so we won't know for a few weeks.
>>>
>>> These are a great step forward. I think the visual illusion of the frame turning into a finished skin would be enhanced by the skin being smaller so it doesn't feel like a glove. Here's a quick hacky demonstration that needs more tidy up.
>>>
>>>   https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bw5wY__nj_W9NTVkQm9rTk5Fbms?usp=sharing
>>>
>>> It might be interesting to see the top end of the fruit being even more realistic with a slight shine, then it progresses from wireframe to flat colour to realistic. Again, I only spent 10 minutes on this, so I know it needs to be done much better, but look at logo-realistic.png in that same share.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ari
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> -------------------------->
>>> Aristedes Maniatis
>>> GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C  5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Nikita Timofeev

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Re: New Cayenne website design

Hugi Thordarson
"An ORM that won't make you regret your life decisions"? I believe the Hibernate crowd might relate.

- hugi



> On 27 Dec 2017, at 16:20, Andrus Adamchik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Works great on my machine. I am planning to write the text for each one of the features on the home page.
>
> Also anyone remembers, did we come up with a better slogan to replace "ORM with character"?
>
> Andrus
>
>> On Dec 21, 2017, at 10:04 AM, Nikita Timofeev <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Here is a GItHub repo [1] with new site demo, it already has pretty
>> much final design. Everyone can clone and test it locally, see README
>> for technical description.
>> What's inside: docs converted to asciidoc (not yet pushed to Cayenne
>> master), site build with Maven + Gulp + Hugo (but only Maven should be
>> installed, other parts are automated).
>>
>> Everyone are welcome to try it and discuss.
>> Once we are happy with main features we can finalize content and push
>> this into apache repo.
>>
>> [1] https://github.com/stariy95/cayenne-website-demo
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Andrus Adamchik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Here ys a more realistic 3D logo (at the same location) :
>>>
>>> https://projects.invisionapp.com/share/QPDY76KB9
>>>
>>> Andrus
>>>
>>>> On Oct 20, 2017, at 5:08 AM, Aristedes Maniatis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 17/10/17 4:17AM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>>>>> Here is another version of the logo: https://invis.io/QPDY76KB9
>>>>>
>>>>> As you see there are two flavors - a small monochrome (white) logo and a bigger 3D logo. I certainly like both better than the initial version. I wonder how well the 3D logo will look like as a Modeler desktop icon. Zhenya, the designer, is on vacation now, so we won't know for a few weeks.
>>>>
>>>> These are a great step forward. I think the visual illusion of the frame turning into a finished skin would be enhanced by the skin being smaller so it doesn't feel like a glove. Here's a quick hacky demonstration that needs more tidy up.
>>>>
>>>>  https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bw5wY__nj_W9NTVkQm9rTk5Fbms?usp=sharing
>>>>
>>>> It might be interesting to see the top end of the fruit being even more realistic with a slight shine, then it progresses from wireframe to flat colour to realistic. Again, I only spent 10 minutes on this, so I know it needs to be done much better, but look at logo-realistic.png in that same share.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ari
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> -------------------------->
>>>> Aristedes Maniatis
>>>> GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C  5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Nikita Timofeev
>

12